In Conversation With Eliot Dudik
Discovering something new in the ordinary is what makes art out of photography - and it is something in which notable photographer, book artist, lecturer, and educator Eliot Dudik excels at.
Armed with his centenary large format camera, a double degree in Art History and Anthropology, as well as a Masters in Photography, Eliot embarks on long trips across the United States like a modern-day hunter, looking for images to shoot and collect.
But his photographs capture not only the people, landscape, and physicality of every place he visits, but also their soul, bestowing each image with a special quality which can only come from someone who sees, thinks, and feels deeply.
Eliot’s paused talk and quiet manners belie an uncanny depth of thought and a wisdom far beyond his years. A serenity rooted in a childhood spent on a sheep farm, and nourished by sustained direct contact with nature, where he still feels most at ease.
Despite his incipient gray hair, Eliot remains an exceedingly young photographer for someone of his trajectory and expertise.
His curriculum of achievements is impressive, and reads like the wish list of any professional photographer: nine published books; founder of the photography program within the Department of Art & Art History at the College of William and Mary, where he also lectures; works published by Smithsonian magazine, The New York Times, Oxford American Magazine, and CNN, among others; photographs included in the Archive of Documentary Arts at Duke University in Durham, and the Museum of Fine Arts in Houston, Texas; countless lectures and workshops, as well as solo and group exhibitions across the United States and abroad, among many other awards and accolades.
An awe-inspiring list of accomplishments for someone who has not yet turned 40. But despite all the honors, Eliot remains modest and approachable.
Making a break from his tight schedule of activities, Eliot has kindly consented to meet A Curious Culturalist to talk about his work, his career in the arts and in academia, what inspires him, the new technologies, his future plans, and what was, is, and remains his main passion: Photography.
Join us to discover more about Eliot Dudik.
A Curious Culturalist - What inspired you to become a photographer?
Eliot Dudik - That is a question I still ponder today. I don't think I came to it in any unique or grandiose manner. I had a couple brief encounters with photography during my mid-teenage years, and I liked it, but I didn't know why.
Things really took a turn when I bought my first camera - I think I was 17-, and I carried it everywhere, and documented my friends and all the things we did together. That obsession has never ceased. I'm not exactly sure why, but I think there are a number of factors at play. First, the things we did at that time - like hiking, canoeing, playing frisbee, bonfires, and a lot of general hanging out-, I thought, were so exciting. Normal teenage things, but I was fascinated by it all.
I grew up on a sheep farm in central Pennsylvania, and while I now find the idea of sheep farm to be fascinating, when I was growing up, anything outside of the sheep farm was fascinating. I think I was just very excited to be having these new experiences, learning about life, relationships, nature, and the way I found to balance that excitement, was through photography. It quieted me, allowed me to experience that moment fully within myself, but then also ultimately have that moment to share with my friends.
I'm also an obsessive collector. I collect books and old photographs, among other things. And I think the act of photographing for me is akin to my obsession with collecting things. I attempt to collect moments, things I want to save and ponder again in the future. I try to work through complex ideas via often long term photographic explorations, collecting pieces along the way.
ACC- You studied three degrees nearly at the same time: a BA in Art History, a BS in Anthropology and later a Masters in Photography. How did these different fields interconnected for you, and how have they influenced your photography?
ED- I came to college obsessed with photography, and as soon as I could, I enrolled in my first photography course, darkroom photography. My obsession grew far deeper with film and darkroom photography : I built my own little darkroom in my apartment bathroom, directly after that course. I was more passionate about photography and learning about photography than anything else at the time, but I was also concerned that perhaps I was being young and naïve thinking I could actually pursue a career in something I loved. So instead of following my initial path toward a major in Studio Art, I chose to double major in two far more lucrative fields: Art History and Anthropology.
Of course, I'm joking. I wasn't thinking about careers that result in financial stability at all, I was thinking about trying to create a sustainable career in photography, and I thought that perhaps a background in Art History and Anthropology would enhance my photography. It was a bit of a leap of faith for someone who tends to drill down hard on whatever is in front of me, but it has undoubtedly paid off.
I am so thankful I made that step because I was able to greatly broaden my perspective on art and our human experience that absolutely have an impact on the way I worked then and continue to work today in photography.
ACC- You also had other experiences that rounded up your academic learning...
ED- In addition to studying photography, art history, and anthropology, I worked at a camera store for a little, a photography gallery for much longer, and for about five years I worked at a cigar shop and martini bar. I learned so much, especially at the gallery and cigar shop, beyond my studies in the classroom.
At the gallery, I had the opportunity to teach myself how to build my own frames, sell my own photographs, and had access to all the cutting edge digital equipment that was coming out. The cigar shop helped me meet all sorts of new people, many of whom played various roles in the creation of my photographs during that time in one way or another. I got the job at the gallery by meeting the owner, just before he opened for business, at the cigar shop. These things supported me financially through college and for a couple of years after, and supplemented my education in massively impactful ways.
After a couple of years out of college, and although I felt as though I was doing pretty well sustaining a career in photography, I decided to go work toward an MFA in Photography. The impact there was also massive, and set the path for what I've been doing for the past decade up until now.
ACC- Each one of your photographs tells a story; some have the feel of a treasure found by accident, while others do seem to be more arranged. Do you plan each of your shots in advance? What is your process?
ED- Yes, they are much more the treasures found by accident rather than planned out. One of the things I learned in graduate school was that I'm quite poor at photography that is planned and then executed. I attempted a project then that included long exposures and ghost images of people. There was one I remember distinctly of a ghosted woman in a white dress, coming down a spiral staircase. It was just as boring as you're imagining it. There was nothing new about it. We had all seen it before. I wasn't learning or discovering anything new by making this picture.
This was definitely some of the most boring work I've ever made. By working through this, though, I gained more confidence in my photography, that was not trying to be anything more than what it was: photographs that simply reveal our world around us. I'm definitely a believer that truth is stranger than fiction. And so all of the work I've done since then has focused particularly on wandering, searching, and sometimes discovery.
By the nature of the photographic equipment I use - almost exclusively large format view cameras-, many of my photographs, especially those that include people, are staged because they have to be. Most work done with a large format view camera involves collaboration with the subject, and for that reason, a certain amount of staging has to occur. But the people I meet and sometimes photograph are usually random encounters while I'm wandering, the photographs aren't planned out ahead of time, they are made in collaboration with people who are just as surprised, and a little weirded out, to meet me as I am to be meeting them.
ACC- Landscape plays a big role in your photography, often portrayed as a character on its own. Would you describe yourself as a 'landscape photographer'?
ED- I sometimes do. It somewhat depends on who I'm talking with. Landscape photographs definitely play a significant role in my practice. Almost every project I launch begins with the landscape. I think this is a crutch for me that I try to recognize and build onto eventually. Because I spent so much time outside on my family's farm, as well as a lot of camping and hiking and whatnot, I believe that my visual language is strongest in the landscape. I feel deeply in nature, I'm able to grasp how it is communicating to me, and I know how to communicate with it.
I am at ease when I'm in nature and working with my cameras, alone. There is quietness inside of me, and I think that translates into the photographs. That's all well and good, but I understand I risk following a rut and stunting growth if I rely too much on what I already know, so I'm constantly seeking places that speak differently to me and trying to engage with the culture and history that is bound to those places.
ACC- Many of your photographs from Broken Land, but specially "Harpers Ferry, West Virginia", reminds us of oil paintings by American painter Joseph H. Hidley, which shows your sensitivity to capture faithful images of Americana. What photographers and artists inspire you?
ED- This is always an impossible question for me to answer. I am constantly learning about new artists, visiting exhibitions, poring over books, and consuming all that the internet has to offer. The list of artists who I'm inspired by would fill a catalog. And I think that is important, to have a well rounded knowledge of ideas and practices that have come before, understanding the conversations that have been had in order to understand the conversations happening now. The concept of inspiration is so complex and varied, I never even know where to begin with this.
I could say that today I am inspired by Barbara Bosworth, Andrea Modica, Justine Kurland, Judith Joy Ross, Susan Lipper, and Sharon Rupp. These are all photographers whose books I looked at this morning. But in addition to that, with the pervasiveness of social media in our culture, I've seen at least 100 pictures from friends on Instagram, just while having my morning coffee, that are inspiring to me. How good that constant consumption of images is, I don't know. I imagine it's not great, like anything else in extreme excess, and that's a trick for our modern society, to learn how to turn it off at times. I'm still working on that.
ACC- I think we’re all with you on that. On a different subject, you have defined yourself as 'obsessive' about photography. Do you think a certain level of obsession is necessary to succeed, in general?
ED- Yes, I do believe it is important. I believe it takes a certain amount of obsessive curiosity to dig below the surface of things, to discover, and communicate something that isn't already understood. I think as human beings, we're attracted to others' obsessions, regardless of how absurd they are.
I try to communicate this to my students, that it really doesn't matter what they explore photographically, as long as they are personally invested, personally obsessed with it. That obsessiveness is part of human nature, I think, and we tend to be curious about what tangles up our fellow humans, because more often than not, there is overlap in the human experience.
ACC- So, in a way, a certain level of obsession is necessary for creation?
ED- Contrary to popular belief, creating art is difficult work. It's often arduous and tedious. It requires discipline, mental and often emotional and physical labor. If an artist or student is not fully invested in a subject, there is no reward for all that effort, the work becomes torturous and discipline falls away.
This happens when artists and students try to make the work they think others want to see. Instead, an artist needs to reach deep within themselves; others will see themselves within those reflections.
ACC- Very wise advise. Your photographic projects often go accompanied by a journey, in which, as in any good adventure, you ought to go with open eyes and open heart to capture the soul of the places and the stories around you. What have you discovered in those journeys?
ED- I've discovered so much and surely so much more that I'm not aware of. I've learned that we are far more similar to one another than different. I've learned that our existence balances on a very fine thread. I've learned that some of us are very, very privileged and others were born into wholly unlucky, devastating circumstances that are nearly impossible to overcome. I've learned that I'm often wrong. I've learned that people are largely exceedingly kind and generous.
ACC- One of the your most interesting projects, Still Lives, focuses on re-enactors of the American Civil war, but it also presents a multilayered dialogue of topics: life and death, historical remembrance, and the way we approach these subjects. Why did you chose this particular historical event?
ED- I sort of fell into this one. I was working on Broken Land, and thought that it may be too much of a stretch for viewers to imagine the carnage that once took place, and the division that continues to knock louder at our door, upon the otherwise quiet landscapes that I present in this series. I decided to attend an American Civil War re-enactment with my 100 year old 8x20" view camera to see if I could create a landscape image with the acts of war happening upon it, which could perhaps become a kind of springboard for the rest of the work. I did make that image - Aiken, South Carolina, it’s on my website.
I had no intention of interacting with the re-enactment community while I was there. However, I got to talking with an African American doctor and long-time American Civil War re-enactor, and was asking him questions like: how do you know where to march, when to fire, when to run, and when to die? He immediately answered the last question with: “Oh, I don't die anymore.” That statement was what stuck in my head. The idea of having control over one's death, performing it over and over, or avoiding it altogether was fascinating to me. And Still Lives is how I ultimately explored those ideas.
ACC- You work is usually displayed in large format, and you work with one of the biggest negatives available. Aside from the fact that this allows the public to perceive minute details, 'walk' into your photographs and be absorbed by them, is there any other reason why you'd prefer large formats?
ED- That is a big part of it, no pun intended. While I'm out searching for photographs, I'm looking for things that strike me, cause me to stop and consider them longer. I'm trying to achieve a similar reaction in viewers of my work. It could be any number of things about the image I present that might cause someone to stop and consider it longer, and one of those things can sometimes just be the level of detail they are presented with, seeing a subject in a new way. That is sometimes a factor. But it is also, for me, the process of working with large view cameras that helps me to achieve the image in the first place, beyond the size and detail in the print.
The process allows me to distill my thoughts and vision down to a singular image, to be precise with my compositions and everything else that goes into making a photograph. I find that it gives me the most clarity, not only in sharpness or detail, but the most clarity of thought and expression while I'm working. There is no way to disregard any aspect of what I am doing, it requires my undivided attention, it requires a long schedule of unavoidable decision making. And within those tight parameters, I try to find opportunities for chance.
These are the same reasons I have my first-year photography students work exclusively with view cameras.
ACC- A rigor that’s certainly worthwhile, and the results are evident. On another subject, in your introductory words for the Broken Land project, you state that "My goals are to create landscapes that come alive with the acts of war, and cause, at least, contemplation of the nature of being American, to allow understanding, communication, and cooperation with fellow citizens." How do you think these goals can be accomplished?
ED- At the time I was making this work, my aim was for conversation, to at least recognize the division that existed and was getting worse, to see that, admit it, and then maybe something could be done about it. But at the time I was making this work, I never once heard anyone speak of the dangerous and growing cultural and political divide in the United States, certainly not in the mainstream media. Then Donald Trump was elected, and at this point it is commonplace to hear such talk.
But I distinctly remember the day, long after I had ceased making photographs for Broken Land, that I first heard an NPR anchor say "the US has not been this divided since the American Civil War." That was the concern of Broken Land, and I wasn't sure if I was just being alarmist or whether there was a true and dire threat to our nation.
No one was talking about it then, before Trump. Divisions undoubtedly got much worse with Trump in office, but they didn't start with him. Again, my aim with Broken Land was first to acknowledge that there was a problem, that we were dangerously divided and that, without recognizing it, doing something about it would be impossible.
As for what to do about it, I still don't know. Social media algorithms and corporate mainstream media greed are definitely two major problems stoking the fires. At least most people, I think, are aware of the dire and delicate state we are in now.
ACC- And art often plays an important part in awakening people’s consciousness about the world we live in. What do you hope people take away with them after seeing your work?
ED- This I don't try to control so much. I don't really care. I do care that they take something away, I do want them to be moved in some way, but I try not to be too ham fisted with what exactly that is. I want them to draw their own conclusions, my aim is not to tell them what to think.
I use my practice as a way of exploring things that I'm interested in, that are important to me. I express those ideas as simply as possible in my project statements for people to consider, if they wish, but I'm more interested in them engaging their own memories and histories and using my photographs to help them better understand their own experiences. If we arrive at the same place, wonderful, but if my photographs take them somewhere completely different, that is fine too.
I think people will more readily be able to use what they learn from a photograph if they come to their own conclusion, rather than if they feel they are being lectured to and told what to think.
ACC- Absolutely, and it makes for a richer experience for the public. But in addition to photography exhibitions, you also create limited edition art books. In the era of tablets, and digital media, why do you think the physical, artisanal book is relevant?
ED- It's just another experience, one that I find to be a little more intimate, and based in materiality. It is incredible, and also a little horrifying, what digital media has done for our collective experience. I utilize it on a daily basis, but I'm also personally drawn to the tangible. I enjoy working with my hands, experiencing the materials of my practice, and surprising myself with what's possible.
Small edition, handmade books, also provides the opportunity to work through an idea in book form without mass producing in thousands of copies. While putting a book into the world in the range of thousands of copies has its benefits, it also often comes with limitations in terms of design, material, and structure. Making books myself allows me to get lost in the process, hold myself accountable, and emerge from long days in the studio with something real.
ACC- In collaboration with photographer and former White House photo editor Jared Ragland you've also produced several books in One Day Projects, which are more experimental and explorative around a theme. Can you tell us more about this project? How and why it was born?
ED- It was born out of a lack of anything better to do. Joking. Neither Jared nor I need anything additional to do to be considered wildly over-worked. It was born out of curiosity and obsession. Jared and I were having dinner with some other folks at a Society for Photographic Education conference, and he and I were discussing the fact that we were both going to be in New Orleans together for the upcoming PhotoNola Review. We talked about finding a day where we could go out into New Orleans together and photograph. Within the space of the next bite of food, that initial, innocent prompt quickly snowballed into: going out together to photograph, making a little photo series out of it, making a book from that little photo series, making 50 books from that little photo series, and finally doing it all in 24 hours in our hotel room turned pop-up book studio. And then we did it.
ACC- Sounds like it was a sort of a Big Bang project...
ED- It was experimental, and it was fun, mostly. It was intended to be both. It was intended to be something new for both of us, something perhaps less significant than the larger long-form projects we were both accustomed to. We mostly did it to see if we could. It was insane. But we did it. And we sat on a panel about Indie Photobook Publishing at the New Orleans Contemporary Art Center the next day, 50 books in hand. I have no idea what was said during that panel, but we were there. We've since done two other One Day Projects. We're still recovering from the last project that was completed in 2018.
ACC- Over the past two decades, emerging technologies have changed the way we produce and see art. In the case of photography, you passed from using chemicals and going through a whole physical process of creating an image, to a purely digital one. How do you think this change in process has modified photography? And, what do you think is the role of new technologies, particularly Photoshop and Social Media, in photography?
ED- Well, I still largely use physical and chemical processes in my work. I suspect I'll never fully step away from that. I do also use digital technologies. I'm most interested in how the two combine. Digital photography has made photography accessible to nearly anyone. It has made photography effortless and instant, and we therefore have roughly 1.5 trillion photos being produced per year. While individually these images are often relatively insignificant, as groups of images they become valuable data sets.
Photoshop has been around since 1987, and although I have growing qualms with the Adobe Corporation, Photoshop is just a tool. It can be a very powerful tool, and some choose to use it quite heavily, while others use it for very minor image adjustments as one might do in the chemical darkroom. The use of Photoshop is so varied it's hard to zero in on its role within contemporary photography, other than to say it's a flexible and powerful tool.
I'm far more concerned about Social Media. Not because of its impact on art, I think that has largely been for the better, opening massive new lanes for creative expression. But the power that those who own and manage these companies have, seems incredibly dangerous. My time spent on social media these days always feels icky and dark. As we learn more and more about how these platforms operate, it become increasingly clear how unhealthy it is for our health and community. How this massive machine is tamed, that is yet to be seen, but I hope some kind of regulation is put in place before long.
Visual literacy and social media literacy definitely need to be a larger part of our education system, particularly for the youngest among us.
ACC- We couldn’t agree more. And you know about education because, in addition to being a photographer, you are also lecturer at the College of William and Mary, for which you founded the photography program within their Department of Art & Art History. Previous to that, you also taught photography at the University of South Carolina. What brought you to teaching and what do you enjoy about it?
ED- It was an interesting turn of events because I didn't plan to teach while in graduate school. I went to graduate school to become a better artist, whereas most of my classmates were there to become teachers. I didn't think teaching was in me because I much preferred to be quiet. But after a somewhat serendipitous dinner while in town for an exhibition opening, an invitation as a visiting artist, and then an invitation to teach, I began my teaching career at the University of South Carolina.
I remember preparing for my first classes and knowing that I should be feeling terror, but for some reason I really didn't. It was very strange stepping up behind the teacher's station for the first time. Everyone thought I was one of the students, sometimes they still do, but it's getting less common now because my gray hair has started coming in.
I truly do love teaching photography. I love seeing students get as engrossed in the medium as I still am. I love watching them discover something new about themselves through their artwork. And my students often surprise me too, and I learn alongside them. It's new every day and every semester. What is relevant in the world is constantly shifting and therefore student interests and their subsequent projects are constantly evolving.
ACC- What advice would you give to new photographers starting out in the profession?
ED- All it takes to be good at just about anything is time, patience, and persistence. And you rarely will be good at anything without those things. If you want to get better at photography, just put in the time, do the work, do the research, and there is really no way you won't get better.
If you want to build a living around photography, just put in ten times the time. It is very challenging and competitive, but I believe anyone can find success in photography if they are truly passionate about it.
ACC- Any future projects?
ED- I'm sure there will be future projects as I seem to run into them like flies on sticky paper. I'm working on a number of projects now that will take me well into the future, I imagine. I still have some work I'd like to do on my Paradise Road series, which is on my website. Namely, I would like to spend some additional time throughout the northeast United States for that series. However, I've spent most every moment outside of the classroom, for the past seven years, working on another project along the coast of Maine in the winter, and I've been teaching workshops in Maine during the summers. I'm now also working with an environmental science research institution in Maine over the summers and winters. I'm also now working with an observatory in Washington DC to create a digital archive of their historic photography collection.
ACC- That is indeed a lot of projects to keep anyone busy for quite some time! Thank you Eliot for giving us such a generous slice of your time, and for sharing your vast expertise with us. We wish you every success in all your endeavors, and we’ll keep attentive to your upcoming projects.
To Learn More
To see more of Eliot’s works, learn more about his projects, and acquire prints of his work, please visit his official website: www.eliotdudik.com
You can also follow Eliot and his projects on social media:
Instagram: www.instagram.com/eliotdudik
Facebook: www.facebook.com/eliot.dudik
Twitter: https://twitter.com/eliotdudik
All images ©Eliot Dudik
All images used by kind permission of Eliot Dudik
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